Tucker convertible in Wisconsin?

[Guest MWG]

About 2 years ago, my father was searching for help from a knowledgable person to help restore a 1934 Ford pickup truck. He came across a gentleman in Racine County, WI that was willing to help. Upon visiting this man, we were shown a Tucker in his garage about 60 percent restored. I looked the car over and over in amazement. It had a convertible top. I don't recall the man saying that his car was a replica. He said that Tucker built a prototype convertible and this was it. The car looked exactly like all the photos of tuckers I have seen. The man said his car could get $400,000 at auction. It had every characteristic of Tucker including the rear helicopter engine. Was I dreaming or drunk or is this possible that he has a true piece of Tucker history and not a replica?

[Tuckerfan1053]

The answer to this really needs to be made a sticky on this board, since the question comes up so often. The answer is: The car's a mule cobbled together by the man who owns it. Everyone who worked for the Tucker Corporation states categorically that they did not begin work on a convertable before the company was closed down. There were some drawings made up for a convertable model, but as you can see from the link below, it would have been for a slightly different body style (that for the 50s year models) than the 48 body, which was the only body style produced.

http://usera.imagecave.com/tuckerfan/tcs.jpg

[AceBarker]

Is there a phot of this mule? Just curious.

[Tuckerfan1053]

Is there a phot of this mule? Just curious.

None that I'm aware of. The owner apparently refuses to allow anyone to take pictures of it. I've heard conflicting stories on the appearance of the car. Some people state that it looks perfect, other people claim that it looks horrible. One would think that if the owner of the car had a legitimate vehicle, he'd be more than willing to allow photographs of it to be taken (especially when he's advertising the car for sale in Hemmings Motor News as he's done in the past).

[Ace Barker]

That's interesting and I agree with you. If you had something that rare or even if you made it and it looked good, why not let folks see it. I assume he doesn't drive the thing either then.

I have run into some pretty strange folks with cars. My favorite is the guy with one in the field and when somebody offers to buy the thing all they hear is, "I am gonna fix it up one day." A year later it's turned more into the field it sits in.

[Tom]

I have pics of the Tucker Conv. I will scan them and let ya'll see. Give me a while though ive gotta find them.

Tom

[ehartman13]

Will be looking for a way to get to see these photos, as will many others on this site. Keep us up to date please. Thanks, Eric

[AzCarCrazy@aol.com]

Regarding that mysterious Tucker convertible sighted in Wisconsin.

If my fading memory serves me correctly, I seem to remember reading about a homemade Tucker convertible in "Old Cars Weekly" newspaper which coincidentally is published in Wisconsin. (I think the article with photo's and sketches was probably published during the very late 1980's to the mid 1990's.)

The car was assembled using a left-over Tucker frame and various spare parts gathered from many different sources over many years, and all done many years after the marques' untimely demise.

Such a car today would probably be most accurately described as a "compilation" car or an "assembled" car because calling it a "mule" or "prototype" implies that it was a legitimately built Tucker which most probably it wasn't. Perhaps we can call it a would-of, could-of, should-of car.

Tucker's plans were looking to the automotive future and 4-door convertible sedans were fading in popularity all through the late 1930's and were definitely being fazed out by most post-war manufacturers.

As I kind of remember, the article said it was built by a man on the SW side of Chicago in a suburb not far from the Tucker factory. (Perhaps in Summit Illinois???)

I also seem to remember the article referring to the car by the builders name which may have began with an 'S'. I think he may have had a sort of Polish/German sounding last name like "Shumanski" or "Shumaker" or "Schwimmer" or something with a similar ring. They called it the "S... Tucker Convertible".

Perhaps someone in the TCA could volunteer to contact "Old Cars Weekly" newspaper in Wisconsin to see if it is possible to research OCW's article index to learn what year and issue it was published in to satisfy our inquiring minds. I'll bet I still have the article in my archives, but without a OCW article index to refer to, it would be a time-consuming process to hand-search all those years of weekly issues.

Incidentally, it's just a thought, but since OCW has published so many in-depth and informative articles on the man and his machines over the years. It might be a worthwhile project for the TCA to undertake indexing them then collecting copies of all those past OCW articles on the Tucker for the TCA's archives.

Happy hunting and happy holiday's.

- Bill Gilmore, member of the Society of Automobile Historians. Phoenix, Az. 602-230-7111 or e-mail to: AzCarCrazy@aol.com

PS:
I regularly enjoy checking out the TCA website and love to receive the Tucker Tribune.

I grew-up not far from the 75th and South Cicero Avenue Tucker factory in Chicago, and back in the 1970's, while as a teen working at the Ford City Post Office as temporary Christmas help for a couple of years, I got to wander through the building looking for remnants of the Tucker plant, but of course nothing remained.

I even once had dinner alone with Preston Tucker Jr. in Phoenix Az a couple of years after the Jeff Bridges Tucker movie came out. As an automotive editor I had just written a feature article about the car and had persuaded Preston Jr. to be a guest speaker for the AAHC which was a group of over 100 Arizona car clubs, and of course I talked to him constantly about the car during the whole meal. I also had the pleasure of telling him that me and many other people were big fan's of his father's car long before that movie was ever made.

I have a somewhat small but nice collection of Tucker ad's, articles, brochures, memorabilia, period photographs and stock certificates, and tonight I just bought a bunch of Christmas presents for myself from the TCA's Tucker E-Store. Ho Ho Ho, I couldn't let those TCA Christmas presents pass me by.
****

[Rich S]

I know a direct personal friend who has seen, touched and otherwise examined this convertible. The owner saved it from the prototype shop with all the pieces needed to complete it.

[Tuckerfan1053]

I know a direct personal friend who has seen, touched and otherwise examined this convertible. The owner saved it from the prototype shop with all the pieces needed to complete it.

Can't be. Phil Egan in his book Design and Destiny describes working in the Tucker plant and being within earshot of the prototype shop, and states that if they were building the car, he'd have known about it. Also, he quotes Alex Tremulis (head designer for the Tucker Corporation) who categorically denied the existence of such a car. Given that Tremulis would be the one person other than Preston Tucker who would know about such a thing, I'd say that the comments by AzCarCrazy@aol.com are correct. If the owner of the car can provide documentation from the Tucker Corporation which proves the existence of the car, that's a different matter

[TuckerCar]

I've said this many times before but... I have seen the car. Seen it, touched it, smelled it, and talked to the owner about it. Yes, it's a Tucker Convertible made from real Tucker parts.

Was it commissioned by the Tucker Corp? Until there is some documentation to prove it (and there is not), it's a car made from left over parts.

[Afterhours227]

Where did the body for this car come from??? Is this the one Alex was playing with for the "49 model year"????

I thought all the bodies were accounted for including 1051 and the ones found in a field rotting away??

[TuckerCar]

I don't recall whether there was a body number on it - I think it was just body panel leftovers. Other than the extended doors and the obvious lack of a roof, there are no stylistic changes, so it was not a body used for any future design work. Also not all of the parts were there. When I saw the car he was working on fabricating a panel to go between the convertible top and the engine compartment.

[AzCarCrazy@aol.com]

Regarding photo's of that Tucker convertible in Wisconsin.

I am going to be in Chicago for the holiday's and I'd be willing to volunteer to drive up to Racine County Wisconsin to check-out that Tucker convertible and take some photo's to post on the TCA site.

I have past and current automotive journalist/editor experience and have been a member of the Society of Automotive Historians for some time. I have also been a Tucker enthusiast since the 1970's, and my previous posting here on this issue mentioned that I've written about the Tucker car before and that I had even interviewed Preston Tucker Jr. over dinner.

I currently run a company called Automotive Research Services here in Phoenix Az where I regularly do collectible vehicle inspections and appraisal's as part of my job.

Last spring, I was involved in researching the forgotten 1957 senior thesis car that Virgil Exner Jr. built and drove while at the University of Notre Dame. (Read about this unique bubble-top concept car in "Collectible Automobile" magazine's April 1998 issue.)

Years before that, I went to Europe to try to locate the lost pre-production prototype (# PP-2) of the 1955 Gaylord Hard-Top Convertible. The 1955-'56 Gaylord was the Tucker-like story of Jim Gaylord, who built a car in Chicago to compete in the world marketplace against the "Gull-Wing" Mercedes.

Gaylord's infamous court battle's resulted in the collapse of Germany's Maybach Car Co. as well as his own car which was styled by Wisconsin's own Brooks Stevens who later designed the Excalibur sports-car. (See pg. 694 of "Standard Catalog of American Cars" and/or issue # 61 of "Special Interest Autos" magazine for more details on this hard-top convertible built fully 2-years before Ford's version.)

So as you can see by my brief bio, I am somewhat of a car detective by trade. (But somewhat more along the lines of Jim Carey in "Pet Detective," where I fumble my way through these great automotive adventures which usually result in happy endings.)

If we can arrange for me to photograph this Tucker convertible, I will try to copy down at least the vin and body numbers to help the club identify and resolve this mysterious convertibles automotive genealogy for inquiring minds like those in the TCA.

Also, if someone in the TCA could please advise me on the various places to look for any and all important serial numbers, I will try to collect as much documentable data as possible on this very special Tucker.

I will be in Chicago for a whole week, but will be available to view the car only from 12-26-05 to 12-30-05. Two weeks later, I will be back in Chicago on the 14th, but will only be available to view the car from 1-15-06 to 1-17-06.

Finally, if we can't arrange a viewing on either of those two trip's, I'll be flying back to Chicago at the beginning of April for an automotive history conference being held April 6th to the 8th at the new Studebaker Museum in South Bend Indiana. I will then have some time both before and after this 3-day conference to again try to view this unique Tucker. After that, I don't expect to be back in Chicago till late December 2006.

I am now offering the TCA four chances here to research and document this special car for historical posterity. Because, in the end, it really doesn't matter what this Tuckers provenance turns out to be, it is still a way cool car and a valuable piece of the Tucker legacy in which we can all take great joy in sharing. So let's all try to solve this mystery for the TCA if we can.

Now if someone will please take the time to put me in contact with the owner, or perhaps even just give me the name of the shop and town where it's located at in Wisconsin. I will then take the time to get the photo's that we are all dying to see, photo's of a CONVERTIBLE TUCKER!!!

So let's try to make this happen for the TCA. I've got the time if you got the directions. Don't let this mysterious Tucker pass us by.

Happy Holiday's & Happy Tucker Hunting,
Bill Gilmore
Automotive Research Services and the Society of Automotive Historians.

To contact me in Phoenix Az call: 602-230-7111. During the dates I've listed above to be in Chicago you can reach me at: 773-238-9158. E-Mail me anytime at: AzCarCrazy@aol.com * * * *

[Tom]

TUCKER CONVERTIBLE # 57

In 1973 Richard Jones had verified that there wer 58 Tucker bodies manufactured by the factory. In the owners directory he correctly stated that Tremulis had worked on #57. The extent of what was done to this car was only known to the few who had been involved in this experimental ,off the books and off the site project at Lencki Engineering. #57 was indeed a sedan when first made. Preston knew that Lenki could handle the unique requirements of a convertible. So over to the Lenki shops it went. Herman Ringling did the body work making 52" long doors, installing a new windsheild frame and header and extending the quarter panels. Joe lenki supervised the box frame change from 18 ga to 10 ga steel. He also designed the tublar reinforcment for the car.

When funds dried up after the SEC did its thing to Tucker the project was abandoned and moved off Lencki's premises .One of his staff was given posession and other than another change of ownership to another Lencki employee in the 70's the partially completed car was in storage, under canvass. In 1985 this was verified by Joe Lencki and Tuckers Experimental division cheif, Robert McLellan. Lencki's set of original working sketches were viewed at that time, but not available for purchase.

Lencki and Tucker worked together before on the Tin Goose and earlier on a Ford project for Indy race cars in the 30's. Although the tin goose had alot of lead, all production cars did as they were all hand built and each car was unique in its fit and finish. The convertible windshield is 4" lower than the sedan and was being fitted to use a large GM convertible top. 57 is stamped into the firewall and the data plate is yet to be filled in.

The convertble and sedan 1043 are being sold together. There are thousands of new factory parts, drawings,literature, and one of a kind items included. To finish the convertible the new buyer may consider several options, one is to resell #43 to finance the completion of the convertible.Another is to trade 43 for the completion of 57. The parts and memrobilia can be sold outright or auctioned. With this much value many cash or trade options can be designed to finance the completion of 57. Call me at 262-363-4892 for an on site inspection prior to any offers or escrows.Thanks for your time and consideration.

Owners agent, Lee Wisniewski

email leewiz@webtv.net